[00:00:06]
>> GOOD EVENING, EVERYBODY. I WANT TO WELCOME YOU ALL TO THE
[1. Call to Order]
PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD MEETING AT THE CITY OF PARKLAND.IT IS 6:00 P.M., DECEMBER 8. WILL EVERYBODY PLEASE RISE FOR
THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. >> I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS ONE NATION UNDER GOD INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND
JUSTICE FOR ALL. >> THANK YOU.
ROLL CALL, PLEASE. >> VICE CHAIR TONY AVELLO.
[4. Swearing-in of New Board Members]
SWEARING IN OF NEW BOARD MEMBERS.
>> FIRST, CONGRATULATIONS, EVERYONE ON YOUR APPOINTMENT.
WE LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU OR CONTINUING TO WORK WITH YOU, OF COURSE. I'M GOING TO DO THE OATH OF OFFICE NOW. IF WE NEED PICTURES AT THE END, WE CAN SET IT UP. RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.
I, STATE YOUR NAME, DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT I WILL SUPPORT, PROTECT, AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION AND GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES, THE STATE OF FLORIDA, AND THE CITY OF PARKLAND. THAT I'M DULY QUALIFIED TO HOLD OFFICE UNDER THE CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE.
AND THE CHARTER OF THE CITY OF PARKLAND.
AND THAT I WILL WELL AND FAITHFULLY PERFORM THE DUTIES OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD UPON WHICH I'M NOW ABOUT TO ENTER. SO HELP ME GOD.
[5. Selection of Chair and Vice-Chair]
SELECTION OF CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR.
>> I WANT TO THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN, FOR THE... FOR YOUR LEADERSHIP OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS.
CHAIRING THIS BOARD. WE HAVE HAD SOME CHALLENGING ISSUES IN THE PAST. BUT YOUR JUDGMENT AND YOUR CHAIRMANSHIP HAS BEEN STEADY AND FAIR, AND IT HAS BEEN AN HONOR TO BE YOUR VICE CHAIRMAN FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS.
AND WITH THAT, I WOULD LIKE TO NOMINATE MURRAY ZWEIG FOR
CHAIRMAN OF OUR BOARD. >> SECOND.
>> TODD? ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE.
AND I WOULD LIKE TO, AT THIS TIME, NOMINATE ANTHONY AVELLO...
I WOULD LIKE TO NOMINATE A STEADFAST, ALWAYS ON THE BALL ANTHONY AVELLO AS THE VICE CHAIR FOR THE NEXT TWO YEARS.
AND TO CONTINUE HIS LEADERSHIP AND DEDICATION TO SERVING ON THE
BOARD IN THE CITY OF PARKLAND. >> SECOND.
YOU HAVE TO SAY THAT NOW. >> ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE.
>> SECONDED BY DEREK. WILL THE CLERK CALL THE ROLL?
>> AYE. VICE CHAIR TONY AVELLO?
>> DEFINITELY. >> WHITNEY GORDON?
>> NATHANIEL KLITSBERG? >> THAT IS AN AYE.
>> VOTING UNANIMOUSLY. >> CONGRATULATIONS.
>> WHO IS THE SECOND ONE? WAS IT TODD?
[6. Approval of Minutes]
>> THERE YOU GO. >> ITEM NUMBER SIX.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES. IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE
MINUTES FROM OCTOBER 13, 2022? >> MOVED.
>> SECONDED. >> ANTHONY, SORRY.
SECONDED BY JOEL. >> ALL IN FAVOR, AYE.
>> I HAVE A COMMENT ABOUT THE MINUTES.
IN ADVANCE OF THIS MEETING, WE RECEIVED INFORMATION FROM JEANIE THAT THE MINUTES WILL BE TAKING ON A DIFFERENT FORMAT.
[00:05:03]
THAT IT WILL BE IN AN ACT ACTION-TAKEN SUMMARY, A BRIEF SUMMARY AS TO WHAT ACTION THIS BOARD TAKES.AND WE ARE DEPARTING FROM A DETAILED MINUTES.
HOWEVER, I UNDERSTAND THAT THE STAFF IS ADVOCATING THAT THE COMMISSION, IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO GET THE CONTEXT AND THE DEBATE OF THIS BOARD, THAT IT IS ON VIDEO AND THEY CAN GET THE CLEAR TONE, DEBATE, THE CONTEXT WITHOUT WORDS BEING MISCONSTRUED ON A PIECE OF PAPER. SO I'M GLAD TO SEE THAT THAT'S BEING ENCOURAGED. I THINK THE FLAVOR OF OUR DEBATES REALLY SENDS A MESSAGE TO THE COMMISSION, YOU KNOW, PARTICULARLY WHEN WE ARE DIVIDED.
I JUST WANT TO LET EVERYBODY KNOW THAT MY FEELINGS TOWARDS THE MINUTES CHANGING AND ENCOURAGING THE COMMISSION TO VIEW THE VIDEO TO GET THE CONTEXT OF WHAT OUR DEBATE IS IS SOMETHING THAT IS A MOVE IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
ALSO FOR THE RECORD, ON THE MINUTES, FOR THOSE THAT ARE LISTENING, THAT ARE NOW IN A MORE BRIEF CONTEXT, THE DIRECTIVE... THERE IS INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO GO AND GET THE MINUTES OR MEETING MINUTES ON VIDEO.
IN THE MINUTES THEMSELVES. SO THANK YOU.
ITEM SEVEN. COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC.
NON-AGENDA ITEMS IS. THERE ANYBODY THAT WISHES TO MAKE ANY COMMENTS? ON SOMETHING THAT IS NOT ON THE AGENDA THIS EVENING? SEEING NONE, I'LL CLOSE TO THE
[8. Comments by the Chair]
PUBLIC. -FOR-FOR COMMENTS.NUMBER EIGHT, COMMENTS BY THE CHAIR OTHER THAN TO WELCOME.
I SEE SOME FAMILIES AND/OR RELATIVES PRESENT.
[9. Approval of the Agenda]
WELCOME, EVERYBODY. AND MOVE ON TO ITEM NINE.APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA. WE ARE GOING TO TAKE... THERE IS NO CHANGES TO THE AGENDA. WE ARE GOING TO TAKE ITEM TEN NOW VERSUS CHANGING IT AS WE WOULD... WE WOULD POSSIBLY DO.
I'M GOING TO READ THE ITEM INTO THE RECORD.
>> MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA. I THINK... YEAH.
MEMBER KLITSBERG MOVED. >> DO WE NEED TO...
>> I DON'T THINK YOU NEED TO MAKE ANY CHANGES.
>> DO WE NEED TO ADD THE ETHICS ASPECT OF THE MEETING?
>> I'M GOING TO DO IT BEFORE COMMENTS BY PLANNING AND ZONING
EVERYBODY IN FAVOR, SAY AYE. >> AYE.
[10. A. Ordinance 2022-017: Amending Off-Street Parking Consideration of an Ordinance of the City Commission of the City of Parkland, Florida, amending the City of Parkland Land Development Code by amending Article 90 "Off-Street Parking and Loading", Division 5 "Off-Street Parking Requirements", Section 90-530 "Amount of Off-Street Parking" to modify regulations regarding the minimum amount of Off-Street Parking required; providing for implementation, conflicts, severability and an effective date. STAFF IS REQUESTING ITEM TO BE DEFERRED.]
>> ALL IN FAVOR. >> ITEM TEN, PUBLIC HEARING.
A, ORDINANCE AMENDING OFF-STREET PARKING.
CONSIDERATION OF AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF PARKLAND, FLORIDA.
DIVISION 5 OFF-STREET PARKING REQUIREMENTS.
SECTION 90-530. OFF-STREET PARKING TO MODIFY REGULATIONS REGARDING THE MINIMUM AMOUNT OF OFF-STREET PARKING REQUIRED. PROVIDING FOR IMPLEMENTATION, CONFLICT AND AN EFFECTIVE DATE. AT THIS TIME, I BELIEVE WE ARE GOING TO BE DEFERRING THIS ITEM. ARE WE DEFERRING IT TO A DATE
STAFF IS REQUESTING DEFERRAL OF THIS ITEM.
WE ARE NOT QUITE READY TO BRING IT FORWARD.
WE ARE LOOKING AT SOME SHARED PARKING CALCULATIONS AND DOING A LITTLE MORE RESEARCH. WE WOULD LIKE TO JUST DEFER IT NOT TO A DATE CERTAIN AT THIS TIME.
WE WILL READVERTISE WHEN IT IS RE-AGENERAL DIESED.
>> A MOTION AND A SECOND. CALL FOR THE ROLL.
>> VICE CHAIR TONY AVELLO? >> YES.
>> NATHANIEL KLITSBERG? >> YES.
[11. Comments from the Planning & Zoning Manager]
>> ANY FURTHER COMMENTS OTHER THAN THE ONES YOU HAD MADE ALREADY? THAT IS ITEM 11 FOR THE RECORD.
>> OH, HI. WE WILL BE IN TOUCH WITH YOU REGARDING THE JANUARY MEETING. RIGHT NOW WE ARE WORKING ON POSSIBLY SOME SIGN CODE REVISIONS.
AT THIS POINT, WE ARE NOT SOLID THAT THEY WILL BE READY FOR JANUARY. WE WILL LET YOU KNOW WHETHER THERE WILL BE A JANUARY MEETING. OKAY?
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> THANK YOU.
[Additional Item]
>> ANY COMMENTS FROM THE BOARD? SEEING NONE, WE WILL OPEN THE REST OF THE MEETING UP TO OUR CITY ATTORNEY.
>> THANK YOU, CHAIR. SO THIS IS THE TIME SINCE YOU HAVE JUST BEEN INSTALLED, I KNOW MANY OF YOU HAVE SERVED ON THIS BOARD. WE HAVE A COUPLE OR AT LEAST ONE NEW FACE: MAYBE NOT ALL OF YOU GOT THE TRAINING LAST TIME.
FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO GOT THE TRAINING FROM ME TWO, THREE YEARS AGO, SORRY. THAT.
I'LL TRY TO SPICE IT UP A LITTLE BIT.
I KNOW THIS ISN'T, LIKE, THE SEXIEST TOPIC.
PUBLIC RECORD, SUNSHINE LAW. I'LL DO MY BEST TO MAKE IT A LITTLE MORE EXCITING THAN PROBABLY YOUR TYPICAL PUBLIC RECORDS PRESENTATION. SO I'LL JUMP RIGHT INTO IT.
IN ADVANCE, I APOLOGIZE FOR THE FAMILIES WHO ARE HERE THAT WILL
[00:10:03]
HAVE TO SIT THROUGH THIS. YES, SIR.(INAUDIBLE). >> I WOULD PREFER TO BE PART OF THE MEETING. TO BE HONEST, YEAH.
MAKE SURE IT IS ON THE RECORD. YOU GOT THE TRAINING.
I HEARD YOU LOUD AND CLEAR. MEMBER KLITSBERG IN TERMS OF THE TIMING. THE TWO-HOUR THING WAS JUST A JOKE. I'LL MOVE THROUGH IT AS QUICK AS POSSIBLE. FEEL FREE TO INTERRUPT ME.
THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE AN OPEN DIALOGUE.
I WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU GET YOUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED.
YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS IN MY MIND, IS REALLY TO PROVIDE YOU THE TOOLS AND GUIDANCE SO YOU CAN MAKE YOUR OWN INFORMED DECISIONS WHEN YOU COMMUNICATE BOTH, YOU KNOW, WITH RESIDENTS AND OTHER INTERESTED PARTIES.
PARTICULARLY, REGARDING SUBJECT MATTER ON THIS BOARD.
SO I'M GOING TO START OFF WITH PUBLIC RECORDS.
THEN WE WILL TRANSITION INTO SUNSHINE LAW.
I ALWAYS START... SORRY FOR THE LEGALESE AND PUTTING A STATUTE UP THERE. I ALWAYS START A PUBLIC RECORDS PRESENTATION WITH A DEFINITION OF PUBLIC RECORDS.
I READ IT OUT LOUD FOR A REASON. I KNOW YOU CAN READ.
I'M FULLY AWARE OF. THAT I WANT TO MAKE A POINT HERE. PUBLIC RECORDS IS DEFINED UNDER STATE LAW AS ALL DOCUMENTS, PAPERS, LETTER, MAPS, BOOKS, TAPES, PHOTOGRAPHS, FILMS, SOUND RECORDINGS, DATA PROCESSING SOFTWARE OR OTHER MATERIAL REGARDLESS OF THE PHYSICAL FORM, CHARACTERISTICS OR MEANS OF TRANSMISSION, IN CONNECTION WITH THE TRANSACTION OF OFFICIAL BUSINESS BY AN AGENCY.
THERE IS A LOT OF WORDS THERE. THE REASON WHY I READ IT OUT LOUD. BY THE WAY, THE UNDERLINING IS MINE. IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THAT IN THE STATUTE. THOSE ARE THE KEY PORTIONS OF THE DEFINITION. THE REASON WHY I READ IT OUT LOUD, IS SO YOU CAN HEAR THE THOUGHT THAT THE LEGISLATURE PUT INTO IT OR MORE LIKELY, AN ATTORNEY LIKE ME WHO DRAFTED IT BEFORE THE LEGISLATURE APPROVED IT.
YOU KNOW, THEY TRIED TO HIT EVERY SINGLE TYPE OF FORM OF A DOCUMENT. JUST IN CASE THEY MISSED EVERYTHING, ANYTHING, THEY PUT REGARDLESS OF PHYSICAL... OF THE PHYSICAL FORM. AT THE END.
YOU KNOW, IN ANY MIND, THE KEY, YOU KNOW, WITH PUBLIC RECORDS ANALYSIS, IS NOT TO FOCUS ON THE FORMAT THAT IT IS IN.
WHETHER IT IS A TEXT MESSAGE OR AN EMAIL OR ON SOCIAL MEDIA.
BUT TO FOCUS ON THE CONTENT OF THE COMMUNICATION.
IS THAT CONTENT MADE OR RECEIVED IN CONNECTION WITH CITY BUSINESS? OR MADE OR RECEIVED PURSUANT TO LAW OR ORDINANCE? LY TELL YOU, FLORIDA HAS ONE OF THE BROADEST PUBLIC RECORD LAWS IN THE COUNTRY.
AND SO WE JUST HAVE TO BE COGNIZANT AS WE MOVE FORWARD.
A COUPLE OF KEY DECISION THAT IS I THINK FURTHER OUTLINE WHAT I SUGGESTED. THE SUPREME COURT, THE FLORIDA SUPREME COURT HAS OPINED THAT A PUBLIC RECORD IS ANY MATERIAL PREPARED IN CONNECTION WITH THE OFFICIAL AGENCY BUSINESS WHICH IS INTENDED TO PERPETUATE, COMMUNICATE OR FORMALIZE KNOWLEDGE OF SOME TYPE. AND FLORIDA COURTS CONSTRUE THE PUBLIC RECORDS LAW LIBERALLY IN FAVOR OF THE STATE'S PUBLIC POLICY OF OPEN GOVERNMENT. IF THERE IS ANY DOUBT ABOUT THE APPLICATION OF THE LAW IN A PARTICULAR CASE, THE DOUBT IS RESOLVED IN FAVOR OF DISCLOSING THE DOCUMENT.
SO LIKE BASEBALL, WHERE THE TIE GOES TO THE RUNNER IN, PUBLIC RECORDS LAW, THE TIE GOES TO IT BEING THE PUBLIC RECORD AND BEING OPEN FOR PUBLIC INSPECTION.
OKAY. SO WHERE DOES THIS ALL COME FROM, ANTHONY? WELL, I BELIEVE IT WAS PUT INTO THE 196 CONSTITUTION VERSION. THIS IS THE SECTION OF THE CONSTITUTION THAT SAYS EVERY PERSON HAS THE RIGHT TO INSPECT OR COPY ANY PUBLIC RECORD MADE OR RECEIVED IN CONNECTION WITH OFFICIAL BUSINESS OF ANY PUBLIC BODY, OFFICER, OR EMPLOYEE OF THE STATE OR PERSONS ACT ON THEIR BEHALF.
EXCEPT WITH RESPECT TO RECORDS EXEMPTED PURSUANT TO THIS SECTION OR SPECIFICALLY MADE CONFIDENTIAL BY THIS CONSTITUTION. WHAT DOES THAT ALL MEAN? SO IF IT QUALIFIES AS A PUBLIC RECORD, IT IS OPEN FOR PUBLIC INSPECTION UNLESS WE CAN POINT TO A STATUTORY CITATION THAT SPECIFICALLY EXEMPTS IT FROM PUBLIC RECORD.
FOR EXAMPLE, SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS ARE CONFIDENTIAL.
BANK ACCOUNT NUMBERS ARE CONFIDENTIAL.
YOU KNOW, YOU GET A CHECK FROM SOMEBODY.
RIGHT? IT HAS A BANK ACCOUNT NUMBER.
WE CAN REDACT THOSE THINGS. IF IT QUALIFIES AS PUBLIC RECORD, UNLESS WE CAN POINT TO SOMETHING SPECIFICALLY IN THE STATE LAW THAT SAYS IT IS EXEMPT OR CONFIDENTIAL, THE PUBLIC HAS THE RIGHT TO INSPECT IT. OKAY? IT IS ALL IN FLORIDA STATUTES AS WELL.
IN ADDITION TO THE CONSTITUTION. YOU WILL SEE THERE, EVERY PERSON WHO HAS CUSTODY AND I'M GOING TO TALK ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS TO HAVE CUSTODY IN A MINUTE. THAT IS AN IMPORTANT CONCEPT.
OF A PUBLIC RECORD SHALL PERMIT THE RECORD TO BE INSPECTED AND COP IDEA BY ANY PERSON DESIRING TO DO SO AT ANY REASONABLE TIME UNDER REASONABLE CONDITIONS. AND UNDER SUPERVISION BY THE CUSTODIAN OF PUBLIC RECORD. CUSTODIAL REQUIREMENTS.
REMEMBER, IT SAYS WHO HAS CUSTODY? RIGHT? PUBLIC RECORDS LAW IMPOSES A DUTY OF DISCLOSURE AND RETENTION ON PERSONS WHO HAVE CUSTODY OF PUBLIC RECORDS. A RECORDS CUSTODIAN OR DESIGNEE MUST ACKNOWLEDGE RECORDS PROPERLY AND RESPOND IN GOOD FAITH. BEFORE I GET TO THE NEXT POINT, I WANT TO MAKE A POINT HERE. SO FOR THE CITY OF PARKLAND, RIGHT? WE HAVE DESIGNATED THE CITY CLERK AS THE PUBLIC RECORDS CUSTODIAN.
[00:15:01]
RIGHT? THAT IS THE GOOD NEWS.YOU DON'T HAVE CITY EMAIL ACCOUNTS, AS FAR AS I KNOW.
RIGHT? YOU HAVE PERSONAL EMAIL ACCOUNTS. SOME MAY REACH OUT TO YOU REGARDING MATTERS OF THIS BOARD. IN YOUR PERSONAL EMAIL ACCOUNT.
WELL, UNLESS YOU FORWARD THOSE COMMUNICATIONS TO THE CLERK, YOU ARE THE CUSTODIAN. RIGHT? THE CLERK DOESN'T HAVE IT. THOSE RETENTION REQUIREMENTS FALL ON YOU. I DON'T WANT THEM TO.
THERE IS WAYS TO GET AROUND... NOT GET AROUND IT, BUT THERE IS WAYS TO ADDRESS IT. RIGHT? HOW DO I DO THAT, ANTHONY? WHY DO I WANT TO DO THAT? WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THERE IS A STATE PUBLIC RECORDS RETENTION SCHEDULE THAT IS HUNDREDS OF PAGES LONG.
RIGHT? IT HAS, LIKE, HUNDREDS OF DIFFERENT CATEGORIES OF RECORDS. YOU KNOW? FOR THIS TYPE OF RECORD, THE RETENTION IS ONE YEAR.
FOR THIS TYPE OF RECORD, THE RETENTION IS SIX MONTHS.
RIGHT? IT IS A BIG BURDEN TO HAVE TO UNDERSTAND ALL OF THOSE, GO THROUGH THEM AND RETAIN THOSE RECORDS. I DON'T WANT THAT TO BE YOUR BURDEN. IT HAS BURDENED THE CLERK ALREADY AND TO SOME EXTENT, ME WHEN SHE HAS QUESTIONS.
THE EASIEST THING TO DO, IF YOU ARE ASKING THE QUESTION, YOU KNOW, HOW DO I DEAL WITH THAT SO I DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT RETAINING IT. IF YOU GET AN EMAIL AND IT IS PUBLIC RECORD, DEALS WITH OFFICIAL BUSINESS OR YOU GET A TEXT-MESSAGE OR SOME OTHER FORM OF COMMUNICATION, MAYBE IT IS AN OLD-SCHOOL HARD-COPY LETTER THAT SOMEBODY MAILS TO YOU.
RIGHT? THE EASIEST THING IN MY MIND, TO DO IS TO SEND IT TO THE CLERK. ONCE THE CLERK HAS ACCESS TO IT, THE CLERK IS NOW THE CUSTODIAN OF THE RECORD.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT. THAT IF SOMEBODY DOES A PUBLIC RECORD REQUEST, THE CLERK DOESN'T NEED TO REACH OUT TO YOU. THEY POTENTIALLY MAY.
TO MAKE SURE YOU DON'T HAVE ADDITIONAL RECORDS.
SHE ALREADY HAS THAT RECORD IN HER POSSESSION.
AND YOU ARE DONE. ANY QUESTIONS ON THAT? OKAY. YOU DON'T WANT TO BE A RECORDS CUSTODIAN. YES, SIR.
>> FORWARDING OF AN EMAIL, CCING OF AN EMAIL, DOES THAT HAVE TO COME UNDER A COUGH OF ANY SORT? DOES THE CLERK HAVE TO BE
COPIED? >> ACTUALLY, YOU INDICATED A GOOD WAY TO... LIKE, WHEN YOU DO A RESPONSE, IF YOU COPY THE CLERK, RIGHT? SHE NOW HAS IT.
IT IS ON THE CITY SERVER. ALL OF THE CITY EMAILS, THEY GET PICKED UP ON THE CITY SERVER. SO SHE NOW HAS ACCESS TO IT.
I DON'T THINK YOU NEED TO PUT ANY SPECIAL MESSAGING OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT IN THERE FOR THE CLERK.
THE CLERK WOULD UNDERSTAND PROBABLY WHY YOU ARE COPYING HER. AND OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, WE ARE HERE AS A RESOURCE. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, YOU GET COMMUNICATION. YOU KNOW, YOU COULD ALWAYS PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL ME. PHONE CALLS, BY THE WAY, ARE RECOVERED BY RETAINER. WE DO THAT PURPOSELY.
WE DO THAT FOR COMMISSIONERS AND BOARD MEMBERS.
YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE, YOU KNOW, THAT YOU COULD PICK UP THE PHONE. I WOULD MUCH RATHER YOU DO THAT AND SPEAK TO ME ABOUT IT THAN POTENTIALLY DO DO SOMETHING THAT MAY BE NOT NECESSARILY IN ACCORDANCE WITH LAW.
YES, SIR. >> JUST GOING BACK TO THE BEGINNING. ON THE EMAIL.
YOU SAID ANYTHING THAT IS ON THE CITY SERVER, EVEN IF IT IS TO US, WE ARE GOOD. WE DON'T NEED TO DO ANYTHING.
OKAY. SO LET'S SAY YOU GET AN EMAIL FROM A CITY OFFICIAL OR EMPLOYER.
GAYLE OR JEAN. RIGHT? THAT EMAIL WILL BE AVAILABLE ON THE CITY SERVER.
WOW. I DIDN'T THINK I WAS THAT BAD ALREADY, MR. KLITSBERG. IT WASN'T THAT BAD ALREADY?
>> THAT IS ONE. >> FAIR ENOUGH.
THOSE WILL BE PICKED UP ON THE CITY SERVER.
>> JUST ANY EMAIL THAT IS NOT... THAT DOESN'T HAVE THE CITY CLERK
ON IT? >> OR EVEN IF JEAN IS ON THERE AND IT IS HER OFFICIAL EMAIL ACCOUNT, IT IS GOING TO BE PICKED UP ON THE CITY SERVER. GENERALLY, WHEN THEY GET A RECORD REQUEST, THEY DO GO TO I. TOVMENT GET A SEARCH.
FOR THE SCEP OF THE REQUEST. THE THIRD BULLET POINT THERE.
THIS IS A COMMON QUESTION I GET ASKED.
LIKE, HOW LONG DO WE HAVE TO RESPOND TO A RECORD REQUEST? TYPICAL LAWYER ANSWER. RIGHT? THE CITY HAS A REASONABLE AMOUNT THAT IS ACTUALLY WHAT THE LAW SAYS. BECAUSE NOT ALL RECORD REQUESTS ARE THE SAME. RIGHT? I MEAN, A RECORD REQUEST THAT ASKS FOR A COPY OF AN ORDINANCE THAT WAS ON YOUR AGENDA LAST WEEK SHOULDN'T TAKE TWO WEEKS.
TO PROVIDE A RESPONSE. RIGHT? IF SOMEBODY ASKS FOR SIX MONTHS OF A CITY EMPLOYEE'S EMAILS OR SOMEBODY'S EMAILS THAT ARE PUBLIC RECORDS.
THAT MAY TAKE SOME TIME TO GO THROUGH, DETERMINE WHAT IS A PUBLIC RECORD AND WHAT IS NOT. DETERMINE IF THERE IS EXEMPT MATERIALS IN THERE. THE WAY THE CITY USUALLY DEALS WITH THE REQUEST LIKE THAT IS, YOU KNOW, WE WILL MAKE A COUPLE OF CALLS. WE WILL INVESTIGATE.
TO SEE HOW MUCH TIME WE THINK THAT IS GOING TO TAKE.
WE GIVE THEM AN ESTIMATE. THEY PAY A DEPOSIT BEFORE THEY SPEND THE TIME, MONEY, AND RESOURCESES TO PRODUCE THE RESPONSIVE RECORDS TO THAT REQUEST.
YOU WILL SEE AGO. BY THE WAY, THAT IS THE FLORIDA ATTORNEY GENERAL OPINION. SHORTHAND FOR.
THAT '08 MEANS IT WAS A 2008 OPINION.
EVEN BACK IN 200 #, THE AGO WAS ALREADY UNDER THE OPINION AT THE TIME POSTING MESSAGES ON SOCIAL MEDIA SITES CONSTITUTES A PUBLIC RECORD. AGAIN, IF YOU GO BACK TO WHERE I STARTED, AND THERE WAS A REASON I UNDERLINED AND SAID ALL OF THAT IS BECAUSE FORGET ABOUT THE FORM.
[00:20:01]
A POSTING ON A FACEBOOK OR YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY POARSED TO YOU ON A FACEBOOK REGARDING CITY BUSINESS, YOU KNOW, AND YOU RESPOND, THAT COULD BE A PUBLIC RECORD.YOU KNOW? MAYBE YOU PRINT IT OUT.
YOU GIVE IT TO THE CLERK. WHENEVER YOU NEED TO DO.
MY PERSONAL GUIDANCE TO YOU, NOT THAT IT IS UNLAWFUL, IF YOU SO CHOOSE, YOU CAN COMMUNICATE ON FACEBOOK, YOU KNOW, ABOUT BUSINESS OF THIS BOARD. I'M SUGGESTING THAT YOU PROBABLY TRY TO AVOID THAT SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH THOSE ISSUES IF YOU. CAN RIGHT? IF YOU DO, YOU KNOW, NOT A PROBLEM.
YOU DIDN'T VIOLATE THE LAW. PRINT IT OUT.
MAKE SURE YOU RETAIN IT. GET IT TO THE CLERK.
SO THIS IS ALWAYS, LIKE, THE HOT ISSUE FOR THE PAST PROBABLY 10-15 YEARS IN PUBLIC RECORDS LAW TO THE EXTENT IT COULD BE A HOT ISSUE IN PUBLIC RECORDS LAW. RIGHT? ORIGINALLY, THERE WAS THIS POSITION THAT TEXT MESSAGES ARE REALLY, LIKE, TRANSITORY IN NATURE.
THEY DON'T REALLY COMMUNICATE OR PERPETUATE ANY FORMAL KNOWLEDGE OF ANY TYPE. IF YOU ARE A MEMBER, 15 YEARS AGO, WHAT TEXT MESSAGES LOOKED LIKE OR GOING BACK TO WHAT THE BEEPER LOOKED LIKE, THEY LOOK DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THEY LOOKED LIKE TODAY. LIKE, I REMEMBER TEXT MESSAGES THAT WERE, LIKE, OKAY. SEE YOU SOON.
RIGHT? YOU DIDN'T HAVE MUCH MEAT IN THERE. NOWADAYS, EVERYBODY IS BUSY.
WITH EMAILS EVERYBODY WANTS A QUICK ANSWER.
RIGHT? A LOT MORE BUSINESS GETS DONE ON TEXT MESSAGES. WHAT I CAN TELL YOU, THIS WHOLE ARGUMENT ABOUT TRANSITORY, AT LEAST IN TERMS OF THE COURTS IS LONG-GONE. RIGHT? IF IT IS DEALING WITH OFFICIAL CITY BUSINESS, IT IS A PUBLIC RECORD. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER IT IS IN A TEXT MESSAGE. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S ON SOCIAL MEDIA. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT IS AN EMAIL. WHAT IS THE CONTENT? IF IT DEALS WITH OFFICIAL CITY BUSINESS, IT IS A PUBLIC RECORD.
KEEP IN MIND, JUST LIKE WE TALKED ABOUT WITH EMAILS, WITH TEXT MESSAGES, WE HAVE THESE FEATURES.
I KNOW ON THE IPHONE, WHEN YOU HAVE A TEXT MESSAGE, IT IS PRETTY EASY. YOU CAN TURN IT INTO AN EMAIL.
GET IT OVER TO THE CLERK. RIGHT? YOU ARE DONE. WELL, ANTHONY, IT IS A TEXT MESSAGE. COME ON.
WHO WOULD KNOW THAT IT HAPPENED? RIGHT? LIKE, WHO WOULD EVER KNOW I HAD THIS TEXT MESSAGE EXCHANGE.
F I CAN TELL YOU THERE IS ALWAYS ANOTHER PERSON ON THE OTHER END OF A TEXT MESSAGE. THE REALITY IS PARKLAND... YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A LOT OF MUNICIPAL CLIENTS.
MY FIRM HAS, LIKE, 20 CITIES IN FLORIDA AND OUTSIDE COUNSEL FOR DOZENS OF OTHERS. AND YOU KNOW, TYPICALLY, WHEN THINGS LIKE THIS DO HAPPEN, AND THERE IS A TEXT MESSAGE, A LOT OF TILES, IT DOES COME UP WITH RESPECT TO PLANNING AND ZONING ITEMS. NOT NECESSARILY THE BOARD.
IT COULD BE THE CITY COMMISSION. IT IS DEALING WITH DEVELOPERS.
I'LL GIVE YOU ONE EXAMPLE WHERE MAYBE SOMEBODY THOUGHT JUST LIKE I MAY HAVE STATED, WHO WOULD EVER KNOW.
RIGHT? WHO WOULD KNOW THIS TEXT MESSAGE EXISTED? IF I DIDN'T PROVIDE IT? THIS IS PROBABLY FIVE YEARS AGO. ONE OF OUR MUNICIPAL CLIENTS IN MIME MIAMI-DADE COUNTY. THERE WAS A DEVELOPER, A CONTROVERSIAL PROJECT. RIGHT? LOTS OF COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE DEVELOPMENT TEAM AND CITY STAFF AND ALSO LOTS OF COMMUNICATION WITH PNC MEMBERS AND CITY COMMISSIONER. THEY GO TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD. THEY DEBT DENIED.
NOW THEY DON'T LIKE IT. THEY START DOING RECORD REQUESTS. THEY DO RECORD REQUESTS THAT ASK FOR TEXT MESSAGES AS WELL. AND THEY GET A RESPONSE.
THEY BELIEVE THAT THEY DIDN'T GET A FULL RESPONSE.
WHY? BECAUSE THEY HAD SOME OF THESE TEXT MESSAGES ON THE OTHER END THAT WEREN'T PRODUCED IN RESPONSE TO THIS PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST.
THAT WAS ENOUGH FOR THEM TO GO TO A JUDGE AND SAY, LOOK, JUDGE, LOOK WHAT THEY DIDN'T PROVIDE. WHAT ELSE WERE THEY HIDING? IN THAT CASE, I'M NOT TRYING TO SCARE YOU.
SORT OF UNIQUE. IN THAT CASE, THE JUDGE ORDERED AN IN-CAMERA INSPECTION. WHICH MEANS NOT OUT FOR THE PUBLIC BUT BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, WHERE THIS CITY COMMISSIONER OR CITY COUNCIL MEMBER HAD TO GIVE UP THEIR PHONE AND AN I.T.
PROFESSIONAL, YOU KNOW, THIRD PARTY INDEPENDENT PROFESSIONAL CAME. MAKE SURE THEY GOT ALL THE MESSAGES. I SAY THAT JUST TO SAY THAT THINGS LIKE THAT CAN HAPPEN. AGAIN, I'M HERE TO INFORM YOU, TO GIVE YOU TOOLS TO MAKE INFORMED DECISIONS.
YOU WILL SEE THERE THE "REGARDLESS OF FORM" I HAVE HIGHLIGHTED. THERE IS CASE LAW.
YOU ARE NOT PERMITTED TO USE SOME MECHANISM TO EVADE THE PUBLIC RECORD. MEANING TEXT MESSAGE OR OTHERWISE SO. AGAIN, IF YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THIS STUFF, YOU GET A TEXT MESSAGE.
SO BIG DEAL, ANTHONY. WHATEVER.
I DIDN'T PROVIDE THE PUBLIC RECORD.
WHAT IS THE WORST THAT CAN HAPPEN? WELL, TECHNICALLY, THIS IS THE WORST THAT CAN HAPPEN.
UP ON THE SCREEN. TECHNICALLY, UNDER STATE LAW, A PUBLIC OFFICER WHO KNOWINGLY VIOLATES AND THEY HAVE TO PROVE YOU HAVE KNOWLEDGE AND YOU JUST DIDN'T FORGET ABOUT A RECORD.
THAT IS NOT EASY. RIGHT? IF THEY HAVE EVIDENCE, IF THEY KNOWINGLY VIOLATE, YOU COULD BE SUBJECTS TO SUSPENSION AND REMOVAL.
YOU COULD LOSE YOUR SEAT ON THE BOARD.
IT IS A FIRST-DEGREE MISDEMEANOR.
[00:25:01]
UP TO ONE YEAR IN JAIL AND A $1,000 FINE.BEFORE YOU FREAK OUT, I WILL TELL YOU RIGHT NOW HOW MANY PEOPLE THAT I KNOW OF IN THE WHOLE STATE OF FLORIDA WHO HAVE EVER GONE TO JAIL FOR A PUBLIC RECORDS VIOLATION.
I CAN COUNT THEM ON MY ONE HAND. WHAT'S MORE LIKELY TO HAPPEN, RIGHT? THE STATE ATTORNEY WHO HAS THE AUTHORITY TO PROSECUTE, SOMEBODY FILES A COMPLAINT.
THEY COME TO YOU. THEY SHOW YOU THIS EVIDENCE.
LOOK, WE GOT YOU. WE HAVE THIS OTHER COMMUNICATION THAT SAID, YOU KNOW, INDICATED THAT YOU PURPOSELY WERE TRYING TO AVOID IT. THEY WILL SAY, YOU KNOW, WE CAN PROSECUTE YOU TECHNICALLY. ONE YEAR IN JAIL.
YOU KNOW, IF YOU ADMIT TO IT AND YOU PAY A FINE AND PLEA, THAT IS MORE LIKELY TO HAPPEN. I DON'T WANT YOU TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH ANY OF. THAT THAT IS WHY WE ARE HERE, TRYING TO AT LEAST GIVE YOU THE TOOLS AND THE KNOWLEDGE.
A VIOLATION WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE IS A NON-CRIMINAL INFRACTION.
A FINE UP TO $500. IF YOU MADE A MISTAKE.
THE STATE ATTORNEY HAS THE AUTHORITY TO PROSECUTE.
BEFORE I GO TO SUNSHINE LAW, THOUGH, ONE OTHER POINT.
ONE OTHER PENALTY THAT IS NOT NECESSARILY SPECIFIC TO YOU, IF THE CITY IS FOUND TO VIOLATE PUBLIC RECORD LAW, IN COURT AND AN ATTORNEY ON THE OTHER SIDE HAD TO BRING THAT CASE FORWARD, THEY CAN GET THEIR ATTORNEY'S FEES PAID FOR.
RIGHT? SO THE CITY DOESN'T LIKE PAYING MY ATTORNEY'S FEES. THEY DON'T WANT TO PAY SOMEBODY ELSE. RIGHT? OKAY. BUT IT HAS HAPPENED.
TIME AND TIME AGAIN. THERE WAS A PERIOD OF TIME WHERE THERE WAS THESE COTTAGE INDUSTRY LAW FIRMS WORKING WITH THESE NONPROFIT GROUPS THAT WERE GOING AROUND TO CITIES AND JUST TRYING TO TAG THEM. WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE IS WE WOULD GO INTO AN EXECUTIVE SESSION. WHEN A CITY GETS SUED.
WE HAVE A CLOSED-DOOR MEETING WITH THE COMMISSIONER.
WE SAY LOOK, THEY FILED THIS CASE.
THEY HAVE MADE THIS OFFER TO SETTLE FOR $2,500 OR $5,000.
YOU WILL PAY ME TO DEFEND IT. IF WE LOSE, YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY THEIR FEES. AS MUCH AS WE MAY THINK WE ARE IN THE RIGHT, YOU KNOW, IT IS A BUSINESS CALL.
RIGHT? SO WE HAVE GOTTEN SOME RELIEF IN PUBLIC RECORDS LAW. SINCE A LOT OF THOSE COTTAGE INDUSTRY THINGS WERE HAPPENING. YOU KNOW, THE COURTS EVENTUALLY CAUGHT UP AND SHUT THAT DOWN. THEY GAVE THE CITY SOME RELIEF.
NOW IF IF A PLAINTIFF WANTS TO SUE FOR VIOLATION OF PUBLIC RECORD LAW, BEFORE THEY GET ATTORNEY'S FEES, BUT THEY HAVE TO SEND A FIVE-DAY LETTER. BASICALLY, IF THEY DID A RECORDS REQUEST A MONTH AGO. FOR WHATEVER REASON, SOMEBODY SLIPPED. BEFORE THEY CAN GET THOSE EARN ATTORNEY' FEES, THEY HAVE TO SEND A LETTER LETTING YOU KNOW, HEY, I SUBMITTED A RECORD REQUEST ON SUCH AND SUCH A DAY.
WE DIDN'T GET A RESPONSE. IF YOU DON'T RESPOND, WE WILL FILE THIS LAWSUIT. WE GOT A LITTLE RELIEF.
BEFRE WHAT WAS HAPPENING IS YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY WOULD MAKE A RECORD REQUEST. WE COULDN'T DIRECT THEM TO THE CLERK BECAUSE OF THE WAY TH THE LAWS WAS SITUATED.
THEY SUBMIT A REQUEST FOR WHATEVER REASON, IT DOESN'T GET HANDLED. THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A LAWSUIT. IN COURT.
WE ARE FACING THAT SAME CONVERSATION THAT I JUST GAVE YOU. THOSE ARE THE PENALTIES FOR PUBLIC RECORDS LAW. I'M GOING TO PAUSE THERE.
I'M TALKING FAST. YOU KNOW, I WAS TOLD THAT I DON'T HAVE MUCH TIME THERE. I WANT TO... ARE WE GOOD BEFORE
WE GO TO SUNSHINE LAW? >> THAT IS OKAY.
I'M TELLING MYSELF IN MY HEAD, THAT WAS BECAUSE... THAT WAS A FAMILY ISSUE. HAD NOTHING TO DO.
>> EVERY TWO MINUTES SOMEBODY... >> OKAY.
>> JUST TO GIVE YOU MORE INTEREST.
ELABORATE A LITTLE FURTHER. I'LL I'LL TRY TO MAKE IT SHORT.
HOW MANY SFU FANS DO WE HAVE UP HERE? NONE. GOOD.
I CAN TELL MY JOKE. RIGHT? THERE WAS A SITUATION WITH THE CITY MANAGER OF TALLAHASSEE.
AND TEXT MESSAGES. AND IT WAS ALLEGED BY THE TALLAHASSEE DEMOCRAT, THE PAPER UP IN TALLAHASSEE... OR
TALLAHASSEE DEMOCRAT OR GAZETTE? >> THAT ALLEGEDLY THE CITY MANAGER GOT FREE TICKETS TO AN FSU GAME.
YOU MAY BE ASKING YOURSELF, WHY THE HELL WOULD ANYBODY WANT TO GO TO AN FSU GAME? I WILL TELL YOU.
THEY WERE PLAYING UM THAT NIGHT. I HAVE TO KNOW MY AUDIENCE BEFORE I THROW THAT OUT THERE. ANYWAY, THE PAPER... YEAH.
I KNOW. THE PAPER DID A RECORD REQUEST.
RIGHT? THEY WANTED ALL THE CITY MANAGER'S TEXT MESSAGES. AND THE CITY MANAGER GAVE A RESPONSE, DIDN'T INCLUDE ANYTHING.
TURNS OUT, AGAIN, THERE IS ALWAYS SOMEBODY ON THE OTHER SIDE. YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO DO. SURE ENOUGH.
THERE WERE TEXT MESSAGES. THEY WERE ABLE TO DOCUMENT TO THE COURT. BOY, DID THE COURT SLAM THE CITY OF TALLAHASSEE. WHEN THIS WAS BROUGHT TO THEM.
WHEN I SAY SLAM, ONE. THEY HAD TO PAY THEIR $40,000, PLUS IN ATTORNEY'S FEES. TWO, UNDER PUBLIC RECORDS LAW, GENERALLY, CITIES CAN CHARGE 15 CENTS PER PAGE.
WHEN YOU WANT COPIES, 20 CENTS FOR A DOUBLE-SIDED PAGE.
THEY BASICALLY SAID YOU HAVE TO GIVE OUT THE FIRST 200 PAGES FOR FREE GOING FORWARD. THREE, THE ATTORNEY FOR THE PAPER WAS ABLE TO COME IN, LIKE, EVERY SIX MONTHS TO THE CITY AND, LIKE, DO AN AUDIT. RIGHT? AND THEN FOUR, THE STAFF WAS BOMBARDED WITH SO MUCH PUBLIC RECORD TRAINING REQUIREMENTS. IF YOU THINK THIS IS BAD WITH ME TONIGHT, FOR MINUTES, THIS IS, LIKE,... YOU CAN IMAGINE
[00:30:04]
MAYBE HOW OTHER STAFF FELT WHEN THEY HAD TO BE PUT THROUGH THAT.NEEDLESS TO SAY, THE CITY MANAGER DIDN'T LAST TOO LONG AFTER. THAT AGAIN, THIS JUST SHOWS YOU SOMETIMES THINGS LIKE THAT COULD HAPPEN.
I DON'T EVEN KNOW. I'M GOING TO SAY.
NO. >> IT IS FLORIDA STATE-MIAMI.
EXACTLY. I CAN'T TALK TOO MUCH.
WE GOT BEAT UP. UM GOT BEAT UP PRETTY BAD THIS YEAR. OKAY.
DISAPPOINTING. ANYWAY, SUNSHINE LAW.
SO YOU MAY HEAR THE SUNSHINE LAW.
A LOT OF PEOPLE USE THAT TERM BROADLY TO MEAN SUNSHINE LAW PUBLIC RECORDS. IN MY MIND, THEY ARE DIFFERENT.
SEPARATE. THERE IS A LOT OF SIMILARITIES.
YOU WILL SEE THEM IN TERMS OF THE LEGAL ANALYSIS STANDPOINT.
WHAT IS THE SUNSHINE LAW? WHEN DOES IT APPLY? WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? OKAY.
HERE IS THE REQUIREMENTS. FOR A SUNSHINE MEETING.
YOU WILL KNOW THIS BECAUSE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF OUR MEETINGS, WE FOLLOW THE SUNSHINE LAW FOR THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD.
ONE, THEY HAVE TO BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.
MEANING ANYBODY FROM THE PUBLIC CAN ATTEND.
IF THEY SO CHOOSE. TWO, THERE NEEDS TO BE REASONABLE NOTICE OF THE MEETINGS.
GENERALLY INTERPRETED TO BE AT LEAST 48 HOURS.
IDEALLY, YOU GIVE AT LEAST 72 HOURS.
NOTICE FOR THAT MEETING. AND THREE, MINUTES NEED TO BE TAKEN. NOT VERBATIM MINUTES.
WE HAD THAT DISCUSSION BEFORE. IT IS A SUMMARY OVERALL OF THE CONTENT AND THE ACTIONS OF THE MEETING.
I HAD THAT STATUTORY SITE THERE. IF YOU WANT TO LOOK IT UP.
WHEN DOES IT APPLY? FLORIDA SUPREME COURT HOLDS ANY GATHERING, WHETHER FORMAL OR CASUAL, OF TWO OR MORE MEMBERS OF THE SAME BOARD OR COMMISSION TO DISCUSS SOME MATTER ON WHICH FORESEEABLE ACTION WILL BE TAKEN BY THE PUBLIC BOARD OR COMMISSION. WE WILL GET INTO VENUE FOR A MINUTE. I WANT TO GO BACK FOR A SECOND.
SO THIS IS MUCH... IN ONE WAY, THIS IS MUCH LIKE THE PUBLIC RECORD ANALYSIS. IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER THE FORMAT. RIGHT? BECAUSE IT IS EASY TO THINK, LIKE, OH, IT IS A MEETING.
IT IS IN PERSON. IT LOOKS LIKE.
THIS RIGHT? YOU HAVE MEMBERS OF THE AUDIENCE. THE REALITY IS THAT COULD BE YOU BUMPING INTO ANOTHER BOARD MEMBER AT THE GROCERY STORE.
THAT COULD BE A CONVERSATION, BY THE WAY, ON FACEBOOK.
WHERE TWO OF YOU ARE OPINING ON SOME ISSUE BEFORE YOU IN A DISCUSSION. RIGHT? ON SOMETHING THAT MAY FORESEEINGLY... FORESEABLY COME BEFORE YOU. DON'T FOCUS ON THE FORMAT.
FOCUS ON THE CONTENT. AGAIN, LIKE, WHAT IS THE DISCUSSION? PERFECTLY OKAY.
FOR VICE CHAIR AVELLO TO SAY TO BOARD MEMBER KAPLAN.
HEY, DID YOU SEE THE DOLPHINS? KIND OF DISAPPOINTING THIS WEEKEND. RIGHT? THAT IS OKAY. WHY? BECASE IT DOESN'T REALLY INVOLVE CITY BUSINESS.
I DON'T THINK THE DOLPHINS ARE GOING TO BE COPPING BEFORE YOU FOR A VOTE. ON THEIR PERFORMANCE OVER THE WEEKEND. LET ME â– MAKE..WELL, I'LL STOP THERE. ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT SO FAR? REGARDING THE MEETING, WHEN IT APPLIES?
>> I DO HAVE ONE QUESTION. YOU KIND OF INTERTWINED A COUPLE OF THINGS EARLIER. WHEN WE WERE DISCUSSING THE PUBLIC RECORDS AND SOCIAL MEDIA, AND YOU POINTED OUT COMMENTS CAN GO BACK AND FORTH. BUT THAT BECOMES A CONFLICT PERHAPS IF IT IS ABOUT A TOPIC BEFORE OR IN THE FUTURE KNOWINGLY BEFORE THE BOARD THAT COULD BE A CONFLICT AND COMPROMISE THE SUNSHINE LAW. IS THAT NOT TRUE?
>> IT COULD. RIGHT? AND OF COURSE, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, YOU PICK UP THE PHONE. SPEAKING GENERALLY, I MEAN, YOU ARE ALL RESIDENTS. RIGHT? YOU ARE INTERESTED IN WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE CITY.
I'M NOT TELLING YOU NOT TO SAY ANYTHING ON FACEBOOK.
OR ANYTHING LIKE. YOU KNOW, FRIENDS ON FACEBOOK OR YOU KNOW, WHATEVER THE LATEST SOCIAL MEDIA IS AND WHATEVER THEY CALL YOUR FOLLOWERS OR PEOPLE, WHATEVER, THESE DAYS, YOU KNOW, THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED ONE-WAY.
LIKE A POSITION PAPER. WHICH IS OKAY.
ALTHOUGH I GUIDE AGAINST IT. AND THEN THERE IS THAT RESPONSE THAT TRIGGERS A POTENTIAL SUNSHINE LAW.
VIOLATION. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? THEORETICALLY, ONE OF YOU COULD PUT OUT A POSITION.
ON AN ITEM THAT IS COMING BEFORE THE BOARD.
LIKE THAT PARKING ORDINANCE THAT DPAIL WAS TALKING ABOUT.
I DON'T LIKE IT. I'M GOING TO VOTE NO.
HERE IS WHY I DON'T LIKE IT. THAT COMMUNICATION IN AND OF ITSELF IS NOT A SUNSHINE LAW VIOLATION.
LET'S SAY YOU PUT THAT IN AN EMAIL TO THE WHOLE BOARD.
THE SECOND SOMEONE RESPONDS LIKE "I AGREE" OR "I DISAGREE." NOW WE HAVE A SUNSHINE ISSUE. RIGHT? AND SO WHY I USUALLY RECOMMEND AVOIDING THE POSITION PAPER, ALTHOUGH I CAN'T TELL YOU IT IS ILLEGAL, IT SORT OF TRIGGERS THAT RESPONSE. RIGHT? ESPECIALLY IF IT IS SOMETHING THAT IS CONTROVERSIAL OR MA MAYBE... YOU KNOW, THERE IS DIFFERENT OPINIONS.
SOMEBODY PUTS OUT THEIR POSITION AND MAYBE, LIKE, I DON'T KNOW.
[00:35:01]
YOU ARE AT THE GROCERY STORE ON A SATURDAY.YOU ARE NOT THINKING. IT IS LIKE A REPLY.
LIKE NO AND SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THE SECOND YOU REPLY, IT KIND OF CREATES THAT ENVIRONMENT FOR SUNSHINE LAW VIOLATIONS.
YOU HAVE TO BE COGNIZANT OF. THAT YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE SAME SIMILAR ANALYSIS. OH, ANTHONY, WHO IS GOING TO FIND OUT WE WERE AT THE GROCERY STORE.
NOW EVERYBODY HAS A PHONE THAT HAS A VIDEO CAMERA ON IT.
THINGS HAPPEN. I'M NOT SAYING SOMEBODY IS GOING TO HAVE. THAT BE COGNIZANT OF THAT.
BECAUSE THERE IS THE SUNSHINE LAW, AND YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO COMPLY. SO VENUE.
GENERALLY, PUBLIC MEETINGS MUST TAKE PLACE IN PUBLIC BUILDINGS AND SHALL NOT BE HELD AT ANY VENUE THAT UNREASONABLY RESTRICTS ACCESS TO THE FACILITY.
THIS IS WHY WE HAVE THE MEETINGS IN PARKLAND.
NOT FORT LAUDERDALE. IT IS NOT REASONABLE TO TRAVEL FOR FORT LAUDERDALE. WHERE WAS THE NOTICE OF THAT MEETING AT THE GROCERY STORE? WHERE ARE THE MINUTES? RIGHT? WAS IT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC? I DON'T THINK SO. BECAUSE NOBODY KNEW ABOUT IT.
OKAY. AND AGAIN, COMPUTER, SOCIAL MEDIA, SUNSHINE LAW SHALL BE CONSTRUED AS TO FRUSTRATE ALL DEVICES. BUT IT WAS ONLY ON FACEBOOK.
WELL, I KNOW IT WAS ON FACEBOOK. BUT IT WAS A DISCUSSION REGARDING CITY BUSINESS. IF YOU LOOK AT THE LAW, RIGHT? IT QUALIFIES. BE COGNIZANT.
SO I HAD THE CONVERSATION. WHAT IS THE WORST THAT CAN
HAPPEN? >> I HAVE A QUESTION BEFORE YOU
GET INTO THE PENALTIES. >> SURE.
>> AND FOR THE RECORD, CAN YOU JUST BRIEFLY GO OVER THE SUNSHINE LAW AS IT RELATES TO BOARD MEMBERS COMMUNICATING WITH
THE CITY COMMISSIONER. >> OKAY.
SO HOW QUICKLY... >> WHETHER THERE IS RESTRICTIONS
I WANT TO QUICKLY GO BACK HERE. OKAY.
SO I HAVE THE FLORIDA SUPREME COURT HOLDING.
YOU WILL SEE IT WHEN I MOVE UP TO THE NEXT SLIDE.
ANY GATHERING OF TWO OR MORE MEMBERS OF THE SAME BOARD OR COMMISSION. IT IS OKAY FOR YOU TO SPEAK WITH YOUR COMMISSIONER. IN FACT, PROBABLY SOME COMMISSIONERS APPRECIATE THAT AND ENCOURAGE THAT.
TO SPEAK WITH YOUR COMMISSIONER OR OTHER COMMISSIONERS ABOUT A MATTER COMING BEFORE YOU. THAT WOULD NOT BE A VIOLATION OF THE SUNSHINE LAW. NOW, THERE SHOULDN'T BE TWO COMMISSIONERS THERE OR PART OF THE DIALOGUE.
RIGHT? THAT CREATES A SUNSHINE LAW ISSUE FOR THEM. THAT IS PERFECTLY OKAY.
WHY? BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT ON THE SAME BOARD OR THE SAME COMMISSION. YOU ARE ON THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD. YOU HAVE SPECIFIC DUTIES THAT YOU HAVE HERE. CITY COMMISSIONERS ARE ON THE CITY COMMISSION. THEY HAVE SPECIFIC DUTIES THAT ARE ENUMERATED IN THE CHARTER IN THE CODE.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS BEFORE I GET TO THE PENALTIES? NO? OKAY.
WHAT CAN HAPPEN? ANY CITY COMMISSIONER OR BOARD MEMBER WHO KNOWINGLY VIOLATES THE LAW BY ATTENDING A MEETING NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE SUNSHINE LAW COMMITS A SECOND-DEGREE MISDEMEANOR. SUBJECT UP TO 60 DAYS IN JAIL, $500 FINE. SIMILAR ANALYSS LIKE THE PUBLIC RECORDS LAW. YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T SEE PEOPLE GO TO JAIL ALL THE TIME FOR THIS.
IT DOESN'T HAPPEN. THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU SHOULD DO IT. OF COURSE NOT.
I'M TELLING YOU THIS IS THE WORST THAT CAN HAPPEN.
THE STATE ATTORNEY WANTED TO PROSECUTE IT, THEY COULD DO THAT SAME... YOU KNOW, THEY SIT DOWN WITH YOU.
ADMIT TO IT. RIGHT? I DON'T WANT YOU TO BE IN THAT. I KNOW YOU ARE WELL COMPENSATED TO BE ON THIS BOARD. THAT IS A JOKE.
OF COURSE. YOU DON'T RECEIVE COMPENSATION FOR THE RECORD, OR ANYBODY LISTENING.
I CLARIFIED ON THE RECORD. IT WAS A JOKE.
RIGHT? BUT SO VIOLATION WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE, NON-CRIMINAL INFRACTION.
FINE OF UP TO $500. AGAIN, WE TALKED ABOUT, LIKE, YOU KNOW, A CIVIL SUIT FILED TO OBTAIN COMPLIANCE.
NOW, IT IS POSSIBLE IF THERE IS A SUNSHINE VIOLATIONST TO CURE IT. I MEAN, IT DOESN'T SOLVE THIS ISSUE IF SOME STATE ATTORNEY WANTED TO BRING SOMETHING FORWARD. GENERALLY, YOU COULD, YOU KNOW, DO THE NOTICE. HAVE THE MEETING THE CORRECT WAY. RIGHT? NOBODY WANTS TO, YOU KNOW, HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT.
PROBABLY 15-20 YEARS AGO, IT WASN'T THAT UNCOMMON.
IN FACT, THERE WAS A COUPLE OF CITIES THAT WOULD DO THIS.
CITY COMMISSIONERS WOULD MEET FOR DINNER BEFORE THE COMMISSION MEETING. RIGHT? I CAN TELL YOU THAT IS LONG GONE.
ESPECIALLY AFTER ALL THESE PHONES AND STUFF.
ALL OF THEM THAT WERE DOING THAT SHUT DOWN THAT PRACTICE.
WHAT HAPPENED WAS, RIGHT? PEOPLE START TO TAKE PICTURES.
PEOPLE GET CLOSE AND HEAR. AND IT JUST DOESN'T LOOK GOOD.
YOU KNOW, GENERALLY, THOSE TYPES OF PRACTICES HAVE GONE AWAY.
THEN AGAIN HERE, YOU KNOW, A CIVIL SUIT TO OBTAIN COMPLIANCE.
WE WOULD HAVE TO PAY POTENTIAL ATTORNEY'S FEES.
THAT WAS MY SORT OF DOWN AND DIRTY CLIFF NOTES VERSION OF PUBLIC RECORDS AND SUNSHINE LAW. IT WAS NOT MEANT TO BE
[00:40:02]
EXHAUSTIVE. BELIEVE IT OR NOT, I COULD DO A FOUR-HOUR PUBLIC RECORDS SUNSHINE LAW.I'M NOT GOING TO PUT YOU THROUGH THAT.
>> WE BELIEVE THAT. WE BELIEVE THAT.
YEAH. THE POINT BEING THAT, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT EXPECTING YOU TO CAPTURE EVERY SINGLE CONCEPT TODAY.
WE ARE HERE AS A RESOURCE. RIGHT? I WOULD RATHER YOU CALL AND PICK UP THE PHONE AND THINK ABOUT THAT, TOO. BEFORE YOU COMMUNICATE.
YOU KNOW, IT IS BETTER TO PICK UP THE PHONE OR SPEAK WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY BEFORE WE DO THAT. I ENCOURAGE YOU TO DO THAT.
I'M ALWAYS HERE FOR YOU. YOU KNOW, I'M HERE TO KEEP YOU OUT OF TROUBLE. I WOULD TAKE IT PERSONALLY IF
ONE OF YOU GOT IN TROUBLE. >> GREAT PRESENTATION.
GREAT JOCK. ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS?
>> ANYTHING? >> I WOULD ENCOURAGE EVERYBODY ON THE BOARD TO READ THE BROCHURE DOCUMENT THAT WAS NICELY PUT TOGETHER BECAUSE IT HAS A LOT MORE INFORMATION IN IT. I THINK WE SHOULD ALL READ IT.
WE SHOULD HAVE A QUIZ ON IT. I'M KIDDING.
>> THERE WILL BE A QUIZ AT THE JANUARY MEETING.
(LAUGHTER) JUST KIDDING. YEAH.
THE LAST THING I WAS GOING TO SAY.
YOU SHOULD EACH HAVE RECEIVED THIS.
THIS IS A SYNOPSIS OF HOW YOUR BOARD... YOUR ROLE IN THE PLANNING AND ZONING AND DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT.
IT HAS A COPY OF THE OATH THAT YOU SHOULD HAVE SIGNED EARLIER AND RETURNED TO JEAN. IT HAS THE MEMBER ROSTER SO THAT YOU ALL, IF YOU NEED TO GET IN TOUCH WITH EACH OTHER OR YOU KNOW WHO YOUR FELLOW BOARDS MEMBERS ARE, WE HAVE THE PROJECTED MEETING DATES FOR THE YEAR.
THOSE ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE AS, YOU KNOW, WE GET CLOSER TO THOSE MEETING DATES. THERE IS ALSO THE BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS PART OF THE CODE. AND THEN THE SPECIFIC PART OF THE CODE THAT ADDRESS IT IS PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD.
JUST SO YOU CAN SEE CODE REQUIREMENTS.
WE HAVE YOUR RULES AND PROCEDURES.
YOUR ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDER. A COPY OF THE STATE STATUTE FOR THE SUNSHINE LAW. AND THEN RATHER THAN TRYING TO GIVE YOU THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN ABOUT THE ON-LINE VERSION IS ALWAYS THE MOST UP-TO-DATE VERSION, WE GAVE YOU THE CODE REFERENCE. IT WILL TAKE YOU TO A DIRECT LINK TO THE CODE. OKAY?
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> SO THIS IS JUST A LITTLE REFERENCE MATERIAL FOR YOU. SO YOU UNDERSTAND HOW THE BOARD FUNCTIONS AND WHAT YOUR ROLE IS IN THE SCHEME OF THE DEVELOPMENT
SERVICES DEPARTMENT. >> MUCH APPRECIATED.
>> THANK YOU. >> BEFORE WE ADJOURN, I WANT TO CONGRATULATE ASHLEY GOBEO AND WHITNEY GORDON FOR MEMBERSHIP.
(APPLAUSE). >> BOARD MEMBERSHIP.
THANK YOU. AND... MR. CHAIRMAN.
I WANT TO THANK THE STAFF AND GAYLE AND JEANIE.
THERE IS A LOT OF HARD WORK AND ALSO ANTHONY, THERE IS A LOT OF HARD WORK THAT GOES ON BEHIND THE SCENES.
I USED TO BE A STAFF PERSON FOR A CITY, AND THERE IS A LOT GOING ON, AND I WANT TO LET YOU KNOW THAT I TRULY APPRECIATE THE HARD WORK, THE JUGGLING. RIGHT? WE DO A LOT OF JUGGLING WHEN WE WORK FOR A CITY.
AND WE APPRECIATE IT. WE COULDN'T DO IT WITHOUT YOU.
SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH TO ALL OF YOU.
>> OH, THANK YOU. WE APPRECIATE THAT
ACKNOWLEDGMENT. >> I WOULD LIKE TO SECOND THAT AS WELL. I WILL TELL YOU ON THE TOPIC OF PUBLIC RECORDS, THE MOST ENLIGHTENING CIRCUMSTANCE I HAVE EVER HAD WITH PUBLIC RECORDS WHEN I WAS AN H.R. DIRECTOR FOR A CITY BACK IN 2002, AND I DID A SEXUAL HARASSMENT INVESTIGATION ON THE CAPTAIN OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
AND MY HANDWRITTEN NOTES WERE ON THE TV.
THAT SUNK IN TO ME, THAT PAYING ATTENTION TO PUBLIC RECORDS.
>> A GOOD POINT. LY MAKE THIS QUICK.
LET'S TALK ABOUT. THAT LET'S SAY IN PREPARATION FOR ONE OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD MEETINGS, YOU PRINT OUT A COPY OF THE AGENDA. YOU WRITE SOME HANDWRITTEN NOTES TO REMIND YOURSELF. NOT A PUBLIC RECORD YET.
THE SECOND YOU TAKE THOSE HANDWRITTEN NOTES AND YOU SHARE THEM WITH SOMEBODY OR ANOTHER BOARD MEMBER, LIKE LOOK AT THIS.
NOW IT WOULD BE... NOW IT IS INTENDED TO PERPETUATE, COMMUNICATE KNOWLEDGE TO SOMEONE ELSE.
KEEP THAT IN MIND. ONCE YOU SHOW THOSE TO SOMEBODY ELSE, ANOTHER BOARD MEMBER, RIGHT?
NOW THAT IS PUBLIC RECORD. >> THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU FOR GIVING ME THAT OPENING TO ADDRESS THAT.
>> I WISH EVERYBODY A HAPPY AND SAFE HOLIDAY SEASON.
AND NEW YEAR. IS THERE A MOTION TO ADJOURN?
>> MOTION TO ADJOURN. >> JOEL BEAT ME.
[00:45:04]
THANK YOU, EVERYBODY. THANK Y* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.